A Conversation with Steve Weatherby

We recently had the incredible opportunity to interview a true expert in the music industry. Steve Weatherby is, in addition to being an Ohio State alum, the senior vice president of artist and label relations for Ingrooves Distribution, a subset of Universal Music Group. Ingrooves was recently consolidated with fellow UMG properties Virgin Labeling and the newly acquired Mtheory Artist Partnerships to form Virgin Music Group. He is also the owner or co-owner of a variety of independent labels and distribution companies, including The Best Music Company, Paction, and UVT Entertainment.

MIC: First of all, can you just give me a quick rundown of your job description? What does the day-to-day look like for you?

Weatherby: So I handle business development for Ingrooves Music Distribution, which is a company under Universal Music Group. We recently announced that we're going to be merging with another big distributor called Virgin Music Group, so that's kind of exciting. But my day to day, really, is to bring in new business to the company. So really, for us, a lot of that is just bringing in label clients. Sometimes we do artist direct deals, sometimes we bring in aggregators, which are sort of like a sub-distributor of us as a distribution company. We acquire catalogs, we acquire publishing, we acquire businesses, we do little bit of everything, but it's really just to bring business into the distribution company.

M: Are there any other kinds of jobs that you've done,within or outside Ingrooves, that have led up to this?

W: It’s interesting, because I've probably been in the music business for about 30 years at this point, and every job has played a part into this job, and this title, if you will. So I've literally done everything from the publishing side to the business management side to the label side, to the distribution side. And I think what's really important for me is that I understand the process from the second somebody writes a song, what happens after that. Whether it's just registering the publishing, or itbecomes a commercial release, and then the royalties that are associated with that, the royalties that are paid out to the artists, to the writer, to the publisher, to the label, and then all the way to when that last penny is paid out.

So I think every job that I've had has kind of played a part and has provided a piece to that sort of spectrum of experience. And I think that's really what's helped me get here, because a lot of times I get questions or we get into conversations that start out with one focus or goal in mind, and then it turns into a completely different conversation, just because you asked the right questions.

M: You’ve been through so many parts of the production pipeline; what would you say are some of the best skills, orthings that you've become proficient in throughout your time, that have gotten you to where you are?

W: To be 100% Honest, I feel like it's not what these jobs have taught me, it's what life teaches you. I used to have a picture on the wall that just said “work hard and be nice to people.” And I think a big part of it is being acceptable and open to these types of conversations. I talk to students all the time because you never know who those students are going to be, you know? A lot of times people want to call and ask for advice about a certain side of the business. I try to be open to all those people and all those conversations.

I think a big part of it, really, is that this is an ego driven business, so it's easy to be a jerk. And I just don't ever want to be that, I just feel like you kill them with kindness. And I think that's really the skill, because at the end of the day, everything is personal communication, and no matter what you're talking about, whether it's a record label, a band, hit record, publishing, etc., you still have to talk to people. And I think the more you're open to just have conversations, that's really what helps. and obviously having the knowledge of what you do [is important], but business development really is kind of a broad category or header for just “talk to people,” you know what I mean? See what they have to do, see what opportunities are there, and then apply that to whatever your business model is for your company.

M: Yeah. From other people that I've heard from within the industry, they always say that one of the most important things you should follow is to “be a good hang.” I feel like that's kind of what you just described

W: 100%. And you know, you make a lot of friends in this business. And I think that's the other part of it. We joke abouthow the music business is kind of like a carousel. And you might be on different horses, but you're still on the same ride. Sowhen you leave one business and go to another, and you're still in the music business, you're still going to see a lot of the same people, you're still going to be connected. So any relationship or bridge that you burned over here may haunt you for your whole career.

And the other part of it is that a lot of times, you just gotta stick with it, you know. It's like playing in a band. I get a lot of artists that are like, “I'm gonna try this for six months.” And it's like, no. You can't do that. This is your job. You’re gonna do this for the rest of your life, or else why would we invest our time and energy and financial resources into you if you think this couldn't happen? You know, for me, the fact that I'm still here 30 years later is amazing. But a lot of times, you just have to stay in the game, you know, and you will eventually rise to the top.

M: That’s an interesting way of thinking about it. So, in terms of more concrete things — and this is just necessary for the assignment — are there any specific pieces of technology or programs that you’ve found useful to learn?

W: If there's one specific program that you have to learn, it's Excel. Excel is such an amazing tool. And even if you look at other sorts of websites, or solutions, a lot of times it's just Excel in the background. I do a lot of royalty work, and I have a lot of experience in royalties, so royalty systems are really kind of our thing. But if you can utilize efficiency in your process when you're dealing with numbers, it's amazing what Excel can do. If you get into the advanced formulas, you can do almost anything with Excel. So I would say know Excel inside and out.

And then for me, you know, sometimes it's Curve Royalty Systems, or Record Maestro or Music Maestro from the Vistex royalty products. Nowadays there's a lot of marketing tools. Youknow, I always joke with people — I used to play in bands many years ago. And I used to have to work at Kinkos’ third shift to like print out flyers and newsletters, because that's how you communicated with people. Nowadays you have social media, you have all these digital tools in front of you, so bands don't have any excuses anymore. You have to put in the hustle and the effort.

I have a little saying: “If you're good, you're good.” Meaning, if you're a good artist, and you really pay a lot of attention to your craft, I don't care where you are or where you live, we'll find you. And people and fans all around the world, they get good music, you know. So you just have to make yourself available, and you have to expose your craft and your songs, and the rest should take care of itself. But you gotta hustle.

M: Yeah, I definitely feel that. Would you say that's an important element of the industry right now in terms of looking for genuine quality? I feel like there tends to be a kind of cynical view of the industry, that you’re just looking for whatever makes money. Do you feel that you and your colleagues are usually trying to find quality above all else?

W: It’s interesting that you asked me that, because a big part of our day, when I'm bringing in new labels and artists, the first thing I do is look at their analytics. And to your point, sometimes Analytics doesn't equate to talent. It might be different, somebody might be a beginner or a new artist, so obviously they're not going to have the same analytics as somebody who's been around ten, fifteen years.

But we will listen to music and try to get a different viewpoint of it to ask, “Does this have potential? Is this actually something that can grow and turn into something significant?” I think it's interesting, too, because you probably have very specific likesand very specific bands that you follow, and I do the same thing. And we might have completely different likes, and that doesn't make a band good or bad, right? You know, and there are plenty bands out there that I'm like, “I don't get this,” and they've got a billion views or streams on Spotify.

Do we listen to music? Yes, absolutely. Does that necessarily determine then if something is going to be successful or not?[shrugs]

M: Yeah, I think that's a really good way of looking at it.

W: Yeah. And I think also, you know, I'm working with an artist out of St. Louis And she's a little older. I say older, she's in her 30s. She's not that old. But she's got a very specific style and genre, like it's a little folky. And it's not that it's not good, it's good. It's just not my personal thing. But I think if she gets in front of the right people in the right demographics, she will find some level of success. And I think that's a big part of the whole music business. And it's finding those people, you know, if it's a heavy metal band, a lot of times Norway will follow, or Europe will follow, or Japan will follow. And the US is a very difficult territory to break into, so you might find success elsewhere that parlays into the US later. So there's a million ways to skin a cat.

M: Kind of a hokey question, what have you found to be the thing that you love most about working in this industry?

W: It's interesting. I mean, it's hard to call it a job sometimes. Because when artists come and perform in our office, and you get to actually meet them and sit down and talk to them. Like, they're just real people, you know? And I think that, to me, is what is fun. What I don't like is the ego, and the attitude, and the B.S., and the politics and all that kind of stuff, which is everywhere. But what I love is when you find genuine people who just love what they do, and they're really good at it, and they have no ego at all. So it all comes down to people and the relationships for me.

M: So, the flip side of that, you said, with the ego and politics, is that a major thing within the industry?

W: I don't think what we do is necessarily brain surgery, and it's not difficult, you know. I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to reach goals and deadlines, etc. But at the end of the day, it's really all about relationships. So yeah, what I don't like is really just the ego aspect of it, the politics. The people who think they're better than someone else, or that they deserve something that other people don't get.

It’s a very competitive industry. You know, Spotify just released a report — I think it was last week — that they upload and release 100,000 songs a day. Think about that. And if you're one artist releasing one song that week, how do you cut through all of that madness and noise to get people to hear your music? Sothere's a bit of a challenge there. And I think that part of the difficulty of our job is trying to figure out how to get bands to break through.

But overall, it's just a fun business to be in. It's entertainment.it's music. You know, the older I get, the less shows I go to, but that used to be really fun. COVID kind of ruined it for a lot of people. But you know, it happens once in a lifetime.

M: I'm interested, has there been a major change in the volume of artists coming in over the course of your career,with the internet and all this new technology?

W: Yeah. I mean, I remember being in high school and — not that I was a fan of Michael Jackson — but I still remember when Thriller came out, right? Because you knew about it six months in advance. It was a massive video all over MTV, and all your friends knew about it. The difference between then and now isthat there's so many more artists. So back then you knew who the top 40 were, you knew the top 40 best-selling artists. Nowadays, I swear to god, every day someone will introduce me to an artist that I'm like, “I have no idea who this is.” And, no joke, they'll have a billion streams on Spotify. And you're just like, “How did that happen? How do I not know who this is?”But it's just because there's so much coming out. It's a little bit of a challenge, but that, to me, is also what makes it fun, you know?

M: it's honestly kind of heartening to see that even industry insiders are just kind of lost when it comes to knowing every artist that’s out there.

W: Blown away! And I was talking to a label earlier, and I was just asking them — because he was very excited about growing his business and getting all these new artists — and I was like, “How do you how do you find your artists?” Because the independent music business has grown significantly in the past ten, fifteen years, right? You used to just have the majors andthen a few independents. Now it's more independent than it is major. So that just means there's more content, there's more volume, there's more consumption, etc. So it's like, how do you stay on top of all that, you know what I mean? … But, you know, A&R is really a challenge, because everybody now has access to Spotify, social media, YouTube, etc. So that's, for the most part, how you go out and find new talent.

M: Building off of that, with social media, things like TikTokhave had like a major influence in the past few years. What are some things that you see changing in the future, in the next decade or so? If there even is a way to predict that.

W: It's hard to predict. But generally, we base it off of like new configurations, right? So we had physical before, like vinyl, 8track, cassette; then it moved into the CD, then it was digital downloads, and now we're in streaming. And when you think about that, what is a stream? You know, a stream is a digital file, literally where can it go from there? But we're starting to see like, the NFT side, where blockchain is getting involved, crypto is getting involved. I think there's gonna be more collaborations in that regard.

But it is hard to say what’s next, you know? … Unless there's like a chip planted in your head, but god only knows. I say that jokingly, but next year, watch that come out. Like Metaverse, right? Like this virtual stuff, which scares the crap out of me. Because I think what we're doing is we're gonna create this alternate universe, if you will. And you think about all the kids that struggle, you know, in elementary school, high school, like they're gonna want to leave their current lives to go live in themetaverse they create, and I just feel like that's going to be part of where this is all going. But I'm just scared to see how that actually plays out …

You know, like, with Covid, we were all kind of stuck at home, right? So our business during Covid skyrocketed, because we had a captive audience, and all they were doing was just consuming, consuming, consuming, you know? And in a Metaverse, it's kind of the same thing. You're gonna sit at home, you're gonna put on your VR whatever, and you're just going to consume content one way or another. So I feel like the challenge is always trying to figure out, like, what's good for people?

M: Well, here’s one last thing. What’s the one piece of advice you would give to someone who wants to get into the industry? What’s something you wish you had known if you were going in today?

W: That’s a good question, because it's still a relatively difficult industry to get into. Because, at least nowadays, schools have some sort of music administration classes. Back when I went to school, they didn't have any of that. So you just have to get the experience, and to get the experience you have to work in the business, but to work in the business, you have to have experience. So it's like this catch 22. I feel like for people trying to get into businesses, leave the ego at the door, take whatever job you can get to get in.

Honestly, my first job in LA was working in the mailroom. And I worked there for three months. And it was honestly the best job I’ve ever had because it was back in the day when BMG had like, 10 labels in one building. And I would just trounce around and deliver mail and people would be like, “who are you? What do you do?” And I'm like “I deliver mail?” And then it's like, “Hey, do you want a job? I need help over here.” And you're like, “Yeah, of course.”

So, you know, I just think you have to have patience. Sometimes you might get a job that you don't particularly want, but if it gets you in the door, that's half the battle. And then once you get in that door, you can figure out where to go from there. But, you know, everybody wants to be A&R, everybody wants to be an artist manager, everybody wants to do the cool, creative jobs. But what I’ve found is that I actually got more knowledge out of working on the admin side, understanding royalty counting, how people get paid, how do you register a song, all this stuff. That to me, is really important. And I would say, if you have the ability, learn every step of the process from the second a song is written to the last penny of royalty that’s paid out. If you understand that, you're steps ahead from most of the people that work in the business.

M: Yeah, I definitely get that. At MIC, we recently had a talk from Courtney Warner, who works in tour production for the Brothers Osborne, and one of the things he said was that the worst kind of artist managers you can have are the people who are just, like, a friend of the artists that wanted to get in right at the manager side, and don't know how anything else works. So I see a little bit of the same thing there.

W: Yeah, it’s 100% true. Artist managers tend to be, you know, brothers, uncles, cousins, friends, etc. And that job, as an artist’s manager, is really to be the glue that connects you to everything in the music business, whether it's your relationship with your attorney, your publisher, your label, your distributor, your tour manager etc. But the majority of those younger artists’managers, they don't have experience, they're just winging it.We have conversations like this all time, and I always refer back to music publishing because the majority of people in the music business don't understand music publishing, and it's such a significant revenue stream for people that it just really pays to know.

And that's why I say, if you understand the process from beginning to whatever the quote-unquote end is, that's the knowledge that most people don't have. Most people are like, “Yeah, I know how to sign an artist.” It's like, do you? Do you understand when you read an RS recording agreement, what every clause means, what all that language means? It sounds kind of heady. But we even tell artists, like, I don't expect you to be an expert in the music business, but I expect you to understand it. You should know where your revenue is coming from. It just doesn't come from one place, it comes from multiple sources, and you're responsible for collecting that. And if you don't, somebody else is gonna get it. So it's just the education of the business, I think, is something that is just super important. And if you have classes in school, or if you can major in it, that's great. But if not, like when I came out here, I went to Ohio State, I don't know if — how did you connect with me, by the way?

M: AlumniFire. It’s something that I don't think a lot of people use, but it was something that my Scholars coordinator pointed us towards. I found you on that and just followed up on LinkedIn.

W: And that's my point … So I went to Ohio State, but I actually took what we call UCLA Extension classes. So there's a lot of music business classes here — you don't have to get a degree, you can just take one class at a time — and I took a bunch of those. And the great thing about that was that it's not just the knowledge that's important. But in each of those classes, the professor worked in the music business, every one of the students in the class had worked in the music business.

To me, 90% of it is just networking, getting to know somebody. Like now you know me, we're a contact. So, you know, it's like, use me however you need to if you want to get in the music business, that's how it works. It's like paying for it in a sense, you know what I mean? It's like somebody helped me. I have to turn out to help everybody else.